TUDJMAN INTERVIEWED AHEAD OF POPE'S VISIT

( Editorial: --> 3404 ) ZAGREB, Sept 27 (Hina) - Both the second visit of Pope John Paul II to Croatia next week and the beatification of Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac are of great historic importance, Croatian President Franjo Tudjman said in an interview published in the September issue of the Catholic youth magazine "MI". President Tudjman advocated cooperation between the state and the Catholic Church in many fields, and commented on the current political situation in Croatia and its international environment. The establishment of a sovereign and independent Croatia crowned the feeling of national and state identity which the Croatian nation had managed to preserve throughout fourteen centuries of its existence. However, the idea of Croatian statehood was not predominant at all times. Tudjman pointed out it was only in our time the idea was thoroughly conceptualised and carried out. Although the Croatian nation initially suffered from a "split identity" and resignation, and although it had no friends nor support from international factors, it was able to achieve political, diplomatic and military victories and to form the Croatian state. Dismissing claims that it was Germany who led Croatia, Tudjman said "both Europe and America... as well as Germany... supported the preservation of Yugoslavia... No one gave us any help whatsoever, neither in any sense of initial political support, nor later, in the battle for the establishment of Croatia. Moreover, since Germany was burdened by its past in the Third Reich, we could not even buy boots there". Nevertheless, "if there was a nation which had understanding for us, but did not dare say it, it was the Germans". The President believes that all efforts should now be directed towards preserving what has been achieved: "After all those victories, we must prevent re-experiencing Bleiburg in peace, which is not impossible". Bleiburg is a place on the Slovenian-Austrian border where, after the end of World War II, tens of thousands of Croatian soldiers and civilians were handed over by the British Army to the Yugoslav partisan units which either slaughtered them or subjected them to extreme sufferings. Certain international centres of power are trying to push Croatia into various Balkan frameworks or south-east European associations, which, in Tudjman's words, hide "some deeper historical, but also contemporary reasons. The international order is based upon the victory of anti-fascist forces and the dictate of alleged democratic forces which are using extremely undemocratic methods, as can be seen in Croatia's case today. "France, England and America are conducting a policy which does not allow the strengthening of Central Europe, Germany, countries from the Baltic Sea to the Adriatic, and since they believe Croatia is a constituent part of Germany's policy, they automatically want us out of central European policy and throw us into the Balkans... aspiring to such Balkan and central-eastern European integration processes... that would be opposed to the present-day Europe, European Union and Russia". Judging that Croatia "is in a very delicate position, almost in a tight spot", President Tudjman recalled that from the 15th to 18th century Croats defended Catholicism from the Ottoman invasion, while European countries waged wars against each other or repaid the Croats with ingratitude and persecutions. "Today, for their own reasons, they do not accept to free us from attachments with the Balkans. It is up to us to decide whether we want to preserve our national consciousness and the unity among a majority of the people - a majority, because one can never have 100 per cent unity, as there are people within every nation that lose their bearings. (External powers) will not be able to threaten us if we manage to preserve our unity and internal social and political strength and economic stability, as well as the military force which we created during the war. Nevertheless, if they manage to cause disunity among us, the future of an independent and sovereign Croatia will not be certain." Opponents of the Croatian Democratic Union (HDZ) are accusing the party, the Croatian state and its President of nationalism although "the party includes people ranging from the right to the left" and the state shows openness also towards the return of people who had inflicted great sufferings upon us, he said. "We are not implementing any extremist nationalist policy. Besides, there are 40,000 Serbs in Zagreb and up to 300,000 in the whole of Croatia. Still, for the Soros-styled world, the Soros- styled open society, and one-sided Socialist and masonic views, we are a country which is a bad example for others." Stressing the importance of reconciliation and national unity in preserving the Croatian state, the President emphasised the role of all segments of the Croatian people. He especially mentioned the Croats in Bosnia-Herzegovina, primarily those from Herzegovina, who were exposed to the Yugo- Communist and Serbian aggression. Herzegovinians displayed their self-assurance when in 1991 common people stood before Yugo- Communist tanks and prevented them from passing through towards (the coastal town of) Split. Herzegovinians, both those who emigrated and who remained, took part in all battles, from Vukovar to Dubrovnik, the President said. Emphasising that the sacrifices of Herzegovinians in the war were by comparison the greatest, he added that those who oppose Croatia's sovereignty "want to impose on us the feeling that Herzegovinians are ruling Croatia". Answering a question on the current pressures on Croatia, the President addressed the case of Dinko Sakic. "They had him for 50 years and did not call him to account nor did they reproach us because of him earlier - they are doing it now as part of the overall pressure" aimed at destabilising Croatia. The purpose of using Sakic is to remind us of the Independent State of Croatia (NDH), the President said. "However, we, I personally and the democratic Croatia, have condemned the Ustasha crimes. But we have also said that all Croats were not Ustasha nor were they all responsible for the committed crimes. We have accepted putting Sakic on trial and we will use that trial to prove the truth about the number of victims in Jasenovac and the whole of Croatia." Speaking about the role of the Church, the President highlighted its huge historic importance which has remained until the present day. "Our democratic Government is based on the principles of Christian civilisation", and the State and the Catholic Church have a lot of common tasks. "We must unite our forces, primarily in education, from kindergarten to the highest form of education, in nurturing moral and ethical principles," the President said. He also mentioned the possibility of a joint fight against drugs, crime and a culture that promulgates crime and violence. Joint efforts should be made to recognise family as the basic unit of society and the nation, and to nurture and accomplish a moral, spiritual and demographic renaissance of the Croatian people. "The Catholic Church and the Holy Father are undoubtedly the only moral authority, a recognised authority, in today's world, in today's civilisation", and this gives the Pope's visit to Croatia a great and historic importance. Tudjman said the beatification of Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac was of paramount importance both for the Croatian people and the Catholic Church among Croats, and Catholicism in general. It also gives the Croatian media an opportunity to recall Stepinac's statement at his trial: "The Croatian people chose the Croatian state in a national plebiscite manner and I would be a villain if I did not feel the pulse of the Croatian people who were slaves in the former Yugoslavia". "This choice was not for an Ustasha-run state, not for fascism," the President said describing Stepinac as one of the most prominent figures of World War II and the post-war period. The Cardinal had resolutely opposed Ustasha, fascist methods and condemned the implementation of racist laws and crimes, but he also opposed the Communist regime. "The Pope's visit can be seen as support for Croatia in the light of pressures by the international community, those circles that do not favour the independence of Croatia, a country supportive of the principles which the Catholic Church and the Vatican preach and advocate," Tudjman said. He described the beatification of Cardinal Stepinac, and the arrival of Pope John Paul II, as a backing of the democratic Croatia in which the Catholic Church has a full opportunity to work in the spirit of its principles and to the benefit of the people within which it lives. (hina) lml/rml/mbr 271917 MET sep 98